For our third episode of this series, Cara is joined by James , who spent many of his teenage years being hidden homeless. Speaking directly with Cara, he uncovers some of the lessons he’s learnt, the resilience he’s built, how he manages his mental health day-to-day and finding hope after trauma.

To read the transcript, please scroll below:

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Cara McGoogan 00:03

Welcome to we are Vodafone a new podcast series where we'll bring together people from very different parts of the organization, to hear their opinions, theories, fears, passions and successes. Over the course of this series, we'll explore the subjects that matter most to you, and how they impact on your life.

I'm Cara McGoogan, a journalist and podcaster. And in this third episode, we're going to talk about male mental health, resilience and finding hope after trauma. In this episode, I'm meeting James, who spent a lot of his teenage years as hidden homeless. He's shown a huge amount of courage in talking publicly for the first time, he's told me how he got through that time and found a happier life, as well as how he's continuing to care for his mental health. To begin, I asked him how he decided to get involved with the series.

James 00:54

I think it’s because I saw an advert that said, “have you got an interesting story to tell?”, I thought, I'll get in touch. The story I originally came up with wasn't the one that I'm gonna go with today. It was more comedy value. Whereas what I’m going to talk about today is a bit more hard hitting. Hopefully, people can learn from what I'm going to talk about today. Hopefully, someone will benefit.

Cara McGoogan 01:14

Did you want to start by taking us back to the beginning of your story?

James 01:17

I was 14 years old. And my family fell on hard times. First of all, they lost the business. And then they decided to not carry on the marriage. So what we did as family, we all pretty much split up. My Mum left the house and my Sister stayed at boarding school and then moved somewhere else with her boyfriend. And I stayed with my Dad. The first year or so it was good, he got another job. We had a bit of a laugh a good time. Then all of a sudden, we just kept missing each other. So I was still at school through the day. And he worked in a pub. So he worked at nights a lot of the time, sometimes in the morning getting ready for the day. So we lived a lot of it by notes. I could just leave a note saying we need some food, leave us some money, or he'd do a food shop or I need money for the bus to get me to school and stuff like that. And everything was going okay and fine.

Cara McGoogan 02:10

How long would it go that you wouldn't see him?

James 02:12

Probably at this stage four to five days, it was probably the longest. It just came quite normal. Sometimes if he had a day off same Monday, Tuesday, I'd see him after school or something. But that gradually got longer and longer. It probably went up to months by the end of it. At 15, I sort of saw a decline in my Dad when I did see him that he wasn't himself. He didn't talk to me and pretty much hid. He stopped coming home. I'm not really sure where he was. There's no evidence that anybody was in the house, other than myself, and these notes started to get ignored. After a while, there was no money for food. I relied on my paper round money. I was earning £8 a week, sometimes 10 or 11 with tips. And this wasn't years and years and years ago when £8 was a lot of money. It was a struggle. It was a small amount of money to get me through a week. What I ended up doing was walking to school, saving the money from the bus. And it was five miles there, five miles back. So it was a long, long journey. But it was pivotal I kept that money that I didn't spend it on sitting on a bus, that was emergency for food.

Cara McGoogan 03:21

How did you make sure that that money lasted you for the week? Would you buy specific things in order to save it?

James 03:27

Yeah, I often lived on Pot Noodles, they were quite cheap at the time, bread and cheese slices, Tabasco sauce to get me through my weeks. When it started to get a little bit harder. So there was times that I would come back, we were on an electric meter and a gas meter if we ran out, it was an empty house. It was a cold, empty house; it was dark and there was no electric and on them occasions I'd use some of the money to get fish and chips from the chip shop. And what I would do with that is, I'd hold it on my jumper whilst it was really warm to keep me warm, until the chips went really cold until they were pretty, pretty inedible. But I still ate them, that was more of an instinct if I needed something warm next to me, to keep me warm through the night.

Cara McGoogan 04:12

And at that point, you're still in your house? But without your Dad there?

James 04:16

I was still in the house, without my Dad and I was still at school. I was getting up early doing a paper round, going to school and coming back. And then it did get a bit too hard to go home. It was the fear of not knowing, whether I was going to have electric, heating, food, hot water, and anything in the house whether it was just going to be an empty shell. I started staying at friends’ houses, I didn't tell any of them anything I was going through. I felt ashamed, embarrassed. At 15 as well you’re quite conscious of what people think of you, you do get a bit nervous and stuff like that. So I didn't, I didn't say anything and I just stayed at houses because I lived in a place called Crewe and the schools in Nantwich a lot of my friends live like Nantwich area or further from Crewe than I would have liked for my paper round because it was desperate that I got to that paper round in the morning, to get me that money to last me the week.

So luckily I had a girlfriend who lived in Crewe and she was happy to help me out. I did tell her a lot about what was going on, as I say she was a similar age, she had her own issues going on, she lived with her Nan and stuff. So it wasn't something that she could turn around and help me out with or even her Nan could help me out with, she would get my paper round for me, if I wasn't able to make it home, if I was staying at friends houses, she would get my paper round for me and help me out in that sense.

I depended on that so much that I didn't have to worry about getting home and making sure that I had some sort of income. I don't really think friends got suspicious. I think for the first few stages, I was quite clever. I stayed a couple of nights, didn't overstay my welcome, then I'd stay a couple of nights somewhere else with a friend that didn't really know the other friend that I stayed at, and then I’d stay at another friends for a couple of nights and they wouldn't know. It was such a lifesaver at these houses and as much as the parents and that, and my friends at the time didn't probably know they were helping me out. It was so nice to have a cooked meal, a shower, one of the biggest paranoias at the time, which is still with me now, I still get really paranoid about, is smelling, I had this fear of being the smelly kid. But I was so grateful of staying at people's houses when I did, to get the showers and the food.

As time went on, I probably stayed at friend’s houses and that more than I should I have done to keep it a secret. People started asking me questions such as, “you haven’t been home in about two weeks, where are you folks to find out where you are?”. And people started to turn it around and find it, find it very strange that no one has actually come to find me. I think some parents must have found it weird that I asked them to wash my school uniform sometimes. They did it, but never really asked the question, “why are we doing this? Why aren’t you going home?”.

Cara McGoogan 06:50

Did any teachers ever ask you any questions?

James 06:53

No. I'm so happy of how far things have come and how different things are nowadays to when I was at school, that I just kept getting in trouble. If I wore a shirt that wasn't the right colour, so if I didn’t have a clean, pale blue shirt, I’d sometimes get a shirt from a charity shop or I’d borrow one out of my Dad's wardrobe and it'd be like a darker blue. And I just get detentions or sent home, no one really asked the question of “why, why are you wearing this?”

And I was hungry all the time. I was so hungry constantly. And I made friends with a lad who he didn't really need to go to school, his parents didn't push him. And he was truant a lot. But school didn't do anything about it. They just let it be. And he didn't need to go. I used to get these free dinners because he got free dinners and I used to sign his name and pretend that I was him. And I had spoken to him about what I was doing. So I was getting him his free dinners when he came in. But one day he was there and I wasn't in that day. And he went and got his school dinner, and they wouldn't let him have it. And for that I got suspended and detentions, no one actually asked me, “why would you do that? Why would you be stealing someone's dinner? Why have you needed this free dinner?”. No one delved into investigate why or even visit my house, I got a letter to take home. Just take this to your parents, because we're not happy with you here and no one investigated it. Whereas nowadays, you wouldn't get away with that, I think somebody would, would be there.

Cara McGoogan 08:15

It's really bad, looking back, isn't it that you didn't have that support and that people didn't notice. But academically? You kind of really pushed on, didn't you?

James 08:24

I did. Yeah. I was quite adamant that that's how I was going to get out of the situation. That the only way forward for me was education, to get a job. After this, I really did realise that, I can't live like this forever.

At one point, we lost the house, I went back home and the landlord had come and kicked us out. So at this point, when I wasn't staying at friends’ houses, it was the streets. So I'd stay in alleyways and behind a billboard sign. But what I’d do in, in my spare time, so at weekends and stuff was probably a dream for a lot of kids. For me it was, I've got nowhere to go for two days, I don't know what I'm going to do. So I would potentially just sit in a library. The library had free water, shelter, and you can read books all day, but I’d use that time to study, to pass my GCSEs which I did.

I managed to get into college. In college there was probably more freedom. It got to a point where my living situation, overruled any type of learning as much as I knew that I needed A Levels and I wanted to learn and to get a career. I got kicked out in the end of college. I just put it on the back burner, I couldn't even think of right that's where I need to be.

It wasn't until probably the end of term of that first year when my friends all passed the first year of college that I decided to start fresh, at a different college and I was determined, I spoke to a tutor about what was going on in my home life. They helped me, they supported me. They didn't mind if those days I missed lessons and they never made me feel bad for missing lessons they just said, “we understand and we’ll help you out”. They even managed to sort out a shelter for me. So I stayed in a shelter through my college. And that was horrible, absolutely horrible. As bad as that sounds is the first person I've opened up to, and the first person that helped me it's not gone the way I would have liked or have needed it to go. I do feel bad now I said it was horrible. But it really, really was it was, there was no category, they put you with people that just been released from prison, or people that have been recovered from drug addiction, or just might have a rehabilitation centre. And this would be a halfway house for them.

I did not feel comfortable at all. And there was, things were banging and screaming through the night, it was scarier than actually sleeping rough in alleyways, where it's quite, quite peaceful and quiet in comparison to this shelter. So I left there, and I went back to sleeping rough.

Cara McGoogan 11:01

And then there was someone else that helped you, that kind of really changed your life.

James 11:05

So this was, this was the changing point for everything really. I bumped into a friend's Mum, while I was in town sleeping rough and just having small talk. She basically asked me where I'm living and what I'm up to now and stuff. And I went, well I go college, down there, and I live here where we’re stood. I expected it to laugh and just go yeah, yeah, great, move on. But no, she, she took that serious, which is brilliant. Because as much as I said in a jokey way. It was serious. And she helped me out.

She put me in this spare room and helped me out with everything. So I got through college, I had showers again, I had meals, a roof. By this point, I had found my Dad, and we were building my relationship again and she would drive me to meet him, drop me off. She even helped me with an application for housing. I’d managed to get a job. I saw light at the end of the tunnel. And I managed to get the flat through the council, this council flat. I had my own flat. I had a job. And I was doing really well at A Levels. I was making it to college and things were looking up, things were going well.

Cara McGoogan 12:12

And just while we’re in this part of your story, to jump ahead slightly. You’ve now got a relationship with that friend.

James 12:20

I have, yeah, so the friend's Mum, who helped me out, I've now married her daughter. She's my wife and mother of my child. We've been friends since we were 11. So I have spoke to her a lot about what was going on at that time through school. And she does seemed shocked sometimes, she wouldn't have never noticed, all my friends never noticed through school. You hid it really well. And it's a bit of a shock to hear about it now.

Yeah, I ended up marrying my saviours daughter.

So at this point, as I mentioned things are going well. I’ve got my flat, I've got my job and I'm doing well at A Levels. It wasn't until I spoke to my tutor, the one that was helping me out and university became an option. She spoke to me about what doors that would open, the courses that were available. And by this point I was, I was probably tired a little bit, a bit like I just want to get up, go to work and come home. But I decided you know what, it's a good idea. I think not just thinking of the next few months years this is, is for my future for my career for work for when I'm older, and I've got a family to look after. I decided that university was the way to go. So we decided on a course, Business and IT, or Business Information and IT, because that was the future. We enrolled me at Liverpool.

Cara McGoogan 13:35

We've talked about some of the survival techniques already. But are there any other things that you feel like you've learned from going through this quite difficult childhood and teenage years, that you've brought into you adult life with you?

James 13:46

Yeah, there's lots of things I've learned, things that I'm still learning now.

Number one is talking about hard issues and things that upset you and showing your emotions. Up until now, I've not really spoken about my childhood, because I was so ashamed even until recent years, and embarrassed by it, I didn't talk at all. I buried it deep. So it's bringing out all the emotions again and going through it again. But as much as that hurts for the day, the day after I feel so much better, so fresher.

Through my earlier career the streses I used to get with, with work and getting jobs done and it was nice to think, it's not that bad. Sometimes when I'm upset, angry or stressed. You just think you know what I've been through worse. This is nothing. I'm probably never gonna remember this in a few months, and then you sort of feel, feel better.

I also like goal setting, I think throughout the whole process, I’d have my little goals to get me through the day of like, “how am I gonna get to school today and how am I going to hide the fact that I'm homeless?”. Then it became like a weekly mission of like, what can I put together, by the end of this week, get all my courseworks in but also make sure I’ve eaten enough, food, made sure that I still got some money left that I'd saved.

It wasn't until it dawned on me, I think it was when all my friends passed the first year of college and they were all excited about getting, they’d just done their AS Levels, they're gonna do A Levels and go to uni, and have this future plan, that I thought, I need a goal. I could spiral down a darker path if I just keep planning my days, my weeks, I need a future goal. So that's still something I do now, as cheesy as that sounds, it's something I've taken with me of I now need to see where I'm going to be in the next five years, how can I get to that? And then smaller goals, to get me to that five year goals, probably change it here and there depending on situations, but as long as I know what it is I want. I seem to be able to get on fine.

Cara McGoogan 15:41

That's very admirable. How do you support your own mental health, you know, not putting too much pressure on yourself, and also making sure that you do stay well?

James 15:50

Once it all had finished, and I finished uni and got a graduate job, I felt that everything was okay, I'd got through the hard part. And it's not the case, it's something that I still struggle with. It was worse, in my mid 20s, I would have terrible nightmares. I didn't sleep for years, even afterwards that I just was normal to have 3,4 hours sleep a night. It was something that crept up on me that I didn't see coming. And I did have two breakdowns, probably in my life from my past, because I didn't deal with it didn't talk about it. What I do is now talk, talk about it, I talk with my wife, I talk about it with my friends, my family. My family, not so much because it gets a little bit difficult, because they start to feel guilty and stuff at that point.

Cara McGoogan 16:35

But, you did reconnect with both your Mum and your Dad?

James 16:38

I speak to my Mum quite regularly. But my Dad became my best friend. The things my Dad was going through, the older I got, the more life I lived. And I forgave him, I thought, you know what, you had a difficult time, you had a breakdown, if anything, I wish I'd spoke to him back then. But 14, 15 year old boys not gonna bring that with his Dad.

But it's something I'm gonna, probably take on my adventure as a Dad with my Son. I think I'm going to make sure he feels comfortable talking about his emotions and might even let him know, days where I'm upset or angry. And recently, my Grandma passed away and I cried and I cried in front of him. And he was so comforting and so nice and cuddled up to me to make sure I was better. In the past, I'd have been ashamed like that, I would have only cried when I was on my own or away from people before you know, but I thought I'm upset now, I'm just gonna let it go.

Cara McGoogan 17:29

That's great that you've got to that point now. So in the workplace, how have you taken your experience and, you know, learnt from it, what has it taught you about your work and your job?

James 17:41

I’ve probably struggled on a, or felt that I’ve struggled on a personal level for it going up the ladder of companies. Even in a social context. I don't, in a group of people, I don't ever feel comfortable. And I have this sort of inner monologue that's constantly telling me that I'm not the same as everyone else. I'm just different. I do blame my past. And it was only recently I've learned the term, imposter syndrome. And I've looked into this, as some of the things I've learned about imposter syndrome, does relate to how I feel. I do sometimes, I don't feel that I'm good enough that the work I do is probably not the standard. Sometimes I feel like I'm a needy member of staff. And sometimes like, please tell me, it's good enough. Keep me up to date that you're happy with my work and my output.

Cara McGoogan 18:26

But reading up on it, have you learned any strategies or things that you can help in kind of addressing imposter syndrome?

James 18:35

Yeah, a lot of it is about learning how to deal with the mistakes you've made, so not dwelling too much on the fact you've made a mistake, that everyone makes mistakes, and you don't make the mistake just because you don't feel as good as everyone else. Everyone makes mistakes, but how to deal with it afterwards because they say that that's a lot of it.

Cara McGoogan 18:52

To be fair,  I think, actually, it's quite good if you can speak to your manager and say, “are you happy with the work I'm doing?” Because that reassurance I'm sure actually helps both of you in your working relationship?

James 19:03

But then I do think, maybe this imposter syndrome kicks in straight afterwards. So I recently booked in a one to one, I just needed some reassurance and guidance, I'm going down the right route. As we finished the call, I was like, “why did I do that? Why was I so needy? Why did that even cross my mind that I wasn't doing a good enough job? Surely someone will tell me if I wasn't doing a good enough job”, you know, that sort of attitude?

Cara McGoogan 19:26

That's difficult, isn't it? Because you go to work still as yourself and with all your past and your history behind you. But you know, it's not necessarily something that you tell your colleagues and they don't know that all the things that are playing in your head because of all the experiences that you've gone through in your past.

James 19:42

So hopefully they will listen to this now.

Cara McGoogan 19:43

And that leads us nicely to one of my last questions, which is, what it's meant for you to share your story for the first time?

James 19:50

This month has been, been hard, but my wife has been brilliant through it. She's been understanding, she's givem me space when I needed to, she has been there when I needed to talk and even got to a point where she was like, “right we're talking because you're being an idiot”. It’s probably gonna affect me for, for the rest of today. And then I'll feel new again, I'll feel refreshed and what my plan is now is to get help, professional help dealing with it. Because everything I'm doing at the moment I'm, I’m either looking on the internet or just talking. I don't know if there's ever a cure for mental health, or, you just have to exercise it and learn as you go and try and recognise the signs of when you feeling low and down or, or if there's actually a time where it'll just disappear. And I'll actually be, be clear of it. But I have struggled to get help externally through, through the NHS in the past, with a few declines, because I'm not at the state that they require me, or I've not hit the score that's required.

The Samaritans have been great, I’ve phoned them a fair few times. I did see the stigma of Samaritans as suicidal. And I've never been at that, I've never been to a point, where I don't want to want to live. So I've never thought of phoning them. But there was one day that I decided that just gonna see what it's like, I'm just going to going to do, I'm sad, I haven't slept for weeks, therefore, you know, I'm just gonna give them a call. And it was brilliant.

But yeah, it's probably ideal or a time now to look at how Vodafone deal with it and what they offer?

Cara McGoogan 21:15

Yeah, that's good, now that is making you think of other services that you can seek out. And talking about this has made you think about how you might be able to help other people that are in similar situations or have been through similar experiences.

James 21:28

Yeah, it is something that's always, always sort of been on my mind of, of how can I help someone that's in that situation now? I think first of all, talking about it, is number one. So I've done that bit. I've considered speaking to the school I went to and just seeing if they want me to do a talk or phoning the shelter that I went to see if they have any sort of volunteer work. I do sort of feel like I've got to the point where I want to give something back now to some of the services that helped me out. But also, I've got that advice there. I can let people know this is a way out, offer guidance.

Cara McGoogan 22:03

Well it's great, you've got to that point where you're thinking about that. In terms of your family who've really been there for you and sort of changed things a lot. Is there a kind of anything that you want to say about your Son and your Wife and kind of how you take this experience to be with them?

James 22:19

I always had this fear of showing emotions, my Dad was solid, he never cracked. And as much as that's admirable thing to do, that he can put on a brave face, and nobody wants someone that's just going to always be emotional, and always go on about their issues. I'm just gonna make sure my Son knows it's okay. That if he’s sad, is upset, and then he, he can always come to me. The other thing I really want him to do is make decisions based on wanting to make the decision, not survival or necessity and I want you to be comfortable. wanting to know that when he finishes school, if he's had a bad day that you can come over, there's definitely gonna be heat in hot water. If he wants a bath, there's gonna be food. And he sounds strange to say, I want him to have a normal, normal life.

Cara McGoogan 23:04

And right at beginning we talked about how you want to share your story because, you know, it shows that things can get better. So I thought it might be nice to finish with the question of what are your hopes for the future?

James 23:17

My future plan is, to be successful in my job to have a career that's dependable, a strong company. So therefore I can provide for my family and be able to achieve all the things I've just mentioned. I want to make sure there's a safe environment for my Son and my Wife that we live, happy, happy in, we're able to do the normal things everyone does.

I sort of want to make people realise and listen to this that as hard as things are as difficult as some things can be, that as much as it’s dark and troublesome at times now, that it's not always going to be like that, there's going to be a way out of it, I’m sure there’s a way of getting through this to a to a happy ending.

Cara McGoogan 23:56

I think it's very inspiring. And thank you for sharing your story. I know it has been difficult talking about it, but we really appreciate it.

James 24:04

Well thank you for, for listening and having me on.

Cara McGoogan 24:07

I hope you've been as moved and inspired as I have by James his story, the ways he's found to recover from a traumatic past and how he cares for his mental health.

This has been We Are Vodafone, a podcast series brought to you by Vodafone for Vodaphone people. If you want to find out more, head to the resources in the show notes below.

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