S2, Ep10 Rain Dove Dubilewski: Breaking the Chains of Gender

It’s the SEASON 2 FINALE people! Not only has it zipped by, but we added on TWO MORE EPISODES from season 1 for your pleasure. Don’t say we don’t treat you well.


And are we finishing this round with a bang or what?! (we are, yes) We have an extraordinary, golden guest for you to see us out. Welcome Rain Dove Dubilewski. You’ll likely know them better by face than by voice, but that’s soon to change… Rain Dove was the first model EVER to be in both male and female magazine covers at the same time and have been using their hefty social media platform (350K+ followers on IG) to defy gender norms and raise awareness about social issues including women’s rights and mental health. Rain is an open-minded, self-aware, funny interviewee who is open and giving with their unusual, moving life story and their hopes for society. You’re going to get a lot out of it. PROMISE.


 Rain joins us to talk about the impact of growing up whilst fitting into the aesthetic expected from women despite the F on their birth certificate. It wasn’t until working as a firefighter in an all-male team who thought Rain was a man, that they realised they were able to present both as male and as female. Living as a man during this time allowed them a sneak peek into what they thought would be a bed of toxic masculinity. What they learnt there would change how they understood the power dynamics at play when it comes to the currency of emotion.


 You ought to know that when Rain is presenting as either male or female or simply themselves, they are absolutely drop dead gorgeous.

 We talk about the benefits and drawbacks of presenting as either gender, and what being a ‘a Gender Capitalist’ really means. Rain tells us about their often harrowing experiences of using male and female bathrooms and why unisex toilets are in fact the safest loo option for everyone. What struck me most about her story is how despite having Trump supporting parents and leaving home at 18 to save face for the family after coming out, they believe in empathy with the people who most ostracise them. Their message of acceptance and kindness is paramount and is quite frankly, inspirational.


 Rain is making a mockumentary series Queers Without Fears developed entirely by the queer community. It’s a fun sci-fi venture which seeks to readdress the balance of highly sexed and violent portrayals of queer folk that presides in film and TV and it’s out in December!

 They are also releasing a mockumentary in response to Piers Morgan’s insistence that if you can choose your pronoun, then he chooses to identify as a penguin. It’s going to be very funny but with an undoubtedly important message about love and kindness at its heart.

Enjoy and we’ll see you next year with more terrific guests and topics on pleasure and the body for Series 3. 


You can watch Rain’s TedX talk on Gender Capitalism here

CW: misgendering and violence

We would love to continue the conversation and hear from you, our listeners: email us at hello@thepleasurepodcast.com or tweet us @ThePleasurePod.

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Social Media:

Rain Dove @raindovemodel

Naomi Sheldon: acast.com/privacy